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My next appointment is tomorrow, so it's time to give an update an update about the last one.

Last appointment was uneventful. While I didn't notice much progress, the ortho was satisfied. The gap between my left first molars closed down significantly such that she couldn't see through them anymore. However, while the gap is closed distally, mesially it's still there. As I only tested the size of the gap using different gauge wires mesially, I didn't realize the progress distally.
She noted down all the complications I experienced and said that we'll tackle those later.
For now she wanted me to continue wearing the elastic to close the mesial space. If it closes before the next appointment, I can try not wearing the elastic for a few days to see if the result is stable.

Unfortunately, not much happened. The mesial gap was about 0.9mm and went down to about 0.8mm over 2.5 weeks. Three days ago I noticed that my bite was starting to become very off and I wasn't able to bite properly on the right side anymore. So I stopped wearing the elastic. The gap has now opened back up to 0.9mm. However, My jaw pain and clicking decreased significantly since I stopped wearing the elastic.

Let's see what tomorrow brings. I won't be surprised if a few more brackets are added.

Hallo wieder einmal.
Am Dienstag gabs wieder einen Kontrolltermin. Die doppelte Kette hat einiges gebracht, der Draht stand links hinten ganz schön über, rechts hingegen gar nicht. Andererseits ist die Lücke links auch noch etwas größer als rechts.
Beim Termin wurde nur die doppelte Kette gewechselt, also nichts Neues. Doch seither merke ich wieder, dass die Gummis unten nach ein paar Stunden weh tun - dort wo eigentlich nichts passieren sollte.
Für den Termin am 13.10. hab ich eine professionelle Reinigung dazubestellt, möchte das einmal im Jahr machen.
Ich halte euch auf dem Laufenden.
Alles Liebe!

man kann die Stangen und die Führung auf jeden Fall entfernen, ich habe viele verschiedene Systeme bei meinen Geräten verwendet und immer konnte man sie auch entfernen - das wäre auch bei der Herstellung sehr hinderlich, wenn diese dann schon fetst dran wären.

DERHELD said:

Sehe auf den Bildern nur, dass sie quasi ausgehängt, voneinander getrennt werden können. Ganz entfernen geht meiner Meinung nach nicht daraus hervor

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Hallo Paradiso!
Magst uns dein wunderbares Stück mal präsentieren und ein bissl was an Erfahrungen damit preisgeben? Da gibt’s glaub ich, außer mir, auch noch ein paar sehr neugierige Leute….

Hallo zusammen,

aushängen geht natürlich ... aber wieso möchtet Ihr die Herbst-Apparatur ganz entfernen?

Sehe auf den Bildern nur, dass sie quasi ausgehängt, voneinander getrennt werden können. Ganz entfernen geht meiner Meinung nach nicht daraus hervor

To fix the two crooked teeth I’ll need a few turns still, but they will be like quarter turns. Then small tweaks to the labial bows. She won’t be doing anything more with the occlusal part. I was hoping that she would make the brace again but instead just shaved it a bit and now that it sits better she said that will do. I’m still not happy with it but I’m not the ortho so will listen to her.

So will you not have any supervision during minor straightening of your incisors? I didn't during the brief period my retainer was resolving relapse. for most of the time, I have been wearing it solely for retention and am now down to part time wear..

Did your ortho turn or ask you to turn your expansion screws?

Do you mind if I ask you how much you have paid this ortho?

All the best with your modified retainer. I hope your speech is improving.

Die Bilder im Online-Shop zeigen es jedenfalls so!
Aber es sollten sich mal die bisherigen Käufer (Paradiso, C94Herbst, Spängchen, ... ) dazu äußern, denn es sind ja noch mehr Fragen, wie die, ob man damit weiches Essen kann oder ob sie über einen Tag dauerhaft tragbar sind offen.
Einige Bilder währen auch allen andern äußerst hilfreich.

Weiß niemand, ob man die Teleskopstangen mittels der Schrauben temporär entfernen kann?

I agree with all of this, but also I believe tongue posture and swallowing habits (both of which I have drastically changed) play a huge factor. Let's not forget most orthodontists are looking at a range of cases, from people with more developed jaws to people who can't even get their tongue on the roof of their mouth because their jaw is so underdeveloped.

I went through a lot of pain and discomfort correcting my tongue posture. Yes, with a hyrax expander you'll have to go slow, but I believe it's possible to get intermolar width closer to genetic potential with a hyrax, I just suspect that it must be supported with good to tongue posture.

I don't really want to post pic, but I do have pics showing a huge difference in posture change. But if I get braces and a hyrax, I will
post photos showing its possible.

Had my appointment today. But disappointed as I thought they would redo the top brace But she just shaved some of the back part of the occlusal off and it does sit a bit better but not perfect. That’s it now, will go back in 9 months and get all the occlusal shaved off and then can keep wearing the top brace as a retainer at night.

Expansion in adults: from what I read, it's now accepted that younger adults still have *some* ability for palatial expansion without having to "crack the join"... If you're older, then it's going to be less possible.

Of course, if expansion slightly tips the molars from being tipped in to being straight, your tongue will 'think' there's more space... well, I guess there IS more space...

I note that your ortho says "expander", which is NOT necessarily RAPID Palatial Expansion. (Apparently, RPE is often 0.5 to 1 mm/day)

Wikipedia says "Although the use of an expander is most common in children and adolescents 8-18 years of age, it can also be used in adults, although expansion is slightly more uncomfortable and takes longer. A patient who would rather not wait several months for the end result by a palatal expander may be able to opt for a surgical separation of the maxilla". 

claudiofranck said:

I got a tongue crib about 6 months ago. It is the biggest most intrusive I have seen. It long almost touching my jaw when I close my mouth and not only ont he front as it us usual but all the way around from band to band. When I close my mouth u cannot touch any teeth with my tongue. I will have at least a year but most likely the full treatment about 3 years with the tongue crib and 2.5 with braces. My ortho won't even talk about getting it off for a year and she will evaluate, but she is adamant and everytime we talk she says she wants it for the duration. We will see, for I have made the decision to at least have all this year, it makes it easier for me to eventually maybe accept to have it for the duration. It is extremely uncomfortable but I got used to it in about 2 months. After dreading and avoiding it for years once I got it it wasn't as bad as I thought it would be and now seeing the results just removing the constant pressure from the tongue as well as the reminder to put it where it should I am so happy to finally have done it.

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Gosh, I have never seen such a extended tongue crib!!!

How did it affect your speech?

Embracer said:

Sorry, tomorrowdies, but it looks like you have been taken in by the conspiracy theories expounded by some of the more cranky dental providers on the net!

What Person said above is a decent summary of the actual science.

By all means get opinions from as many properly qualified orthodontists as you want- then trust their expertise.

Good luck with your treatment. I hope you enjoy it and get good results.

Click to expand...

Haha I didn't believe it at first, but I have pictures to prove it. Huge changes. Two orthodontists responses have been "Wow!" and complete fascination.

You guys are all in orthodontic dogma. Expansion will work in adults, has been documented, is possible, and I can clearly see that it's happened in me. It depends on tongue posture. I know this to be true. Muscle will always win in a battle with bone.

I saw an ortho who had already done a consultation, about expansion. The manager said they will re-evaluate. She did the re-evaluation for like 3 mins, and just said "Yes, you need braces, expander, and wisdom teeth extracted". As soon as that happened I was like "Yup, I'm leaving"

I'm in contact with another ortho who understands

Hey! What do you mean by being careful not to over-exaggerate?

I agree with you that a wider mouth usually means better breathing, better athletic performance, and it's more aesthetically pleasing... just be careful not to exaggerate! I loved my RPE, I had it for 7 months and it's what made me realize I had a braces kink. I hope you get one as well

Here in Germany you will get molar bands for every braces treatment. I actually never saw here someone who had braces and didn’t have molar bands. I have them too + headgear tubes on the upper jaw.

Sorry, tomorrowdies, but it looks like you have been taken in by the conspiracy theories expounded by some of the more cranky dental providers on the net!

What Person said above is a decent summary of the actual science.

By all means get opinions from as many properly qualified orthodontists as you want- then trust their expertise.

Good luck with your treatment. I hope you enjoy it and get good results.

I have reason to believe adult expansion is possible, and I've seen some research.

My pallet has already expanded a lot with just my tongue. The extra mechanical force will accelerate it. Many orthos don't want people to know this is possible because it's less money for them if we find out why so many people have crooked teeth: Lack of correct tongue posture.

If your teeth are at all crooked or you have a crossbite, you are not at your genetic potential in the maxilla. Expansion without surgery will work but you have to have good tongue strength and posture to support it.