New Posts

Hallo wieder mal,

diesmal gibts wenig Neuigkeiten. Seit dem letzten Reparaturtermin hält diesmal alles. Ich hoffe mal, dass es so bleibt. Es ist jetzt einen Monat her, dass ich meinen ersten Kontrolltermin hatte und einen neuen Draht oben und unten bekam. Dennoch spürte ich in den letzten Tagen erst größere Druckempfindlichkeiten auf den 1ern. Das deutet für mich darauf hin, dass die Drähte wirklich eine gute Qualität aufweisen und durch die selbstligierenden Brackets das 8-Wochen-Intervall ausreichend ist.

Des weiteren hab ich mir das Foto vom 1. Tag angesehen und mit heute verglichen. Auch in den letzten 2 Wochen hat sich sichtbar etwas getan. Am auffälligsten ist es immer noch im UK wo die Stufen waren. Hier gleicht sich alles auf ein Niveau an. Was mir jedoch dabei aufgefallen ist, dass ich nachts relativ stark zusammenbeiße. Vielleicht gibt sich das mit der Zeit oder mein Körper wehrt sich dagegen, dass der UK einen falschen Schließwinkel bekommt. Ich werde das auf jeden Fall beobachten.

Weitere Kleinigkeiten, die mir aufgefallen sind: Im UK habe ich an manchen Stellen weiße Flecken bemerkt, die sich nicht mit Zahnseide oder einer Interdentalbürste entfernen lassen. Ich vermute, es handelt sich um Kleber bzw. an einer anderen Stelle um eine Füllung, die jetzt erst sichtbar wurde und deswegen der Kunststoff eine andere Farbe aufweist.

Und zu guter Letzt habe ich gelernt, dass ich in Zukunft 2 Speisen meiden werde: Ruccolasalat und Spaghetti. Beides verfängt sich leicht und bildet größere Klumpen, die sogar schon während des Essens stören. Die Spaghetti sind insofern unangenehm, wenn man sie nicht zerkauen kann und sie hinunterschlucken will, aber noch das andere Ende an einem Bracket hängenbleibt. Also meine Empfehlung hierbei: Entweder auf andere Nudeln umsteigen oder die Spaghetti mit einem Messer zerschneiden, auch wenn man dafür schräg angeschaut wird.

Das wars wieder einmal. Ich wünsche euch alles Liebe und habt Mut zum Lächeln mit Spange.
Joe

How is the bottom expander? I would love to get one, but never really clear on effectiveness in young adults

In den 80er Jahren waren HGs öfter zu sehen,  wer sich damit auf die Straße traute (oder wer der Mutter gehorchte,  die anderen haben ihn im Treppenhaus wieder abgemacht).
Heute gibt es ja zum Glück Alternativen, die nicht angenehmer,  aber unsichtbarer sind.

Zoot said:

https://epaper.zwp-online.info/epaper/sim/kn/2020/kn1120#12

Click to expand...

Seite 12

Der Headgear ist keineswegs ein Auslaufmodell.

Click to expand...

https://epaper.zwp-online.info/epaper/sim/kn/2020/kn1120#12

Sounds like you are doing well!

I have chosen clear in top and Metal on bottom, and i‘m very happy with this decision

Update after nearly one week with both braces:

The bottom brace is perfectly fine. It fits well and doesn't produce any sore spots. When it was activated during the last appointment, the next few days the activated teeth hurt quite a lot, which I expected but was somehow still surprised by. However, it wasn't too bad, as I was still able to eat all of my normal food. Due to the top plate moving things around slightly even though it's not yet activated, and the new occlusion surface of the lower grinding planes resulting in pretty strong clenching, all of my teeth are a bit sensitive in general.
The top appliance on the other hand is a pita. It had a sharp edge in the tongue region, one wisdom teeth spring was digging into the gums, the labial bow exerted force on one tooth which shouldn't be the case yet, two springs are formed in a way that they pinch my tongue when I move it to that spot, and two small pieces of plastic already broke off. A few of the finger-springs also poke my tongue when I touch them. Due to all of those reasons I went to the ortho on Monday, who fixed most of them (apart from the pinching and poking springs where "just don't move your tongue there" is a valid solution I guess ). The last few days were better, and at least my tongue isn't hurting all the time anymore.

The activated bottom teeth moved quite quickly to their new position. Already two days after the spring activation, they were in their new position and stay there since (I can't feel any further movement with my tongue since then, and the ache reduced significantly after 2 days). But already that small adjustment resulted in none of my chewing surfaces matching up like before anymore. That happened way earlier than I expected. I feel like I'm not able to chew properly anymore but instead just mush up food. It's a weird feeling.

Regarding the wax and how to remove it, an ultrasound cleaner apparently works wonders! All of the wax is gone.

retained said:

I think I was almost passing out with the anticipation.

Click to expand...

That describes it pretty much perfectly. Way better description than I tried to achieve in several sentences

retained said:

He asked me how they felt. I could hardly answer.

Click to expand...

My ortho also asked me if I felt any pressure. I was so overwhelmed with everything that I couldn't say anything. I just sat there in awe of everything that was happening. Even if I wanted to answer, I just didn't feel anything at all in that moment. It was incredible. Unfortunately, already in the second appointment a week later when I got the top plate, the anticipation and feeling of awe wasn't quite as strong anymore. I hope that it'll be back strong for my first adjustment in 5 weeks time. One week maybe wasn't enough time to calm down enough to get hyped up again before the next appointment.

Embracer said:

Presumably if your ortho has not discussed expansion with you, they will not have given you a key to turn the expansion screws? [...] Have you had any part of your upper brace activated yet? Or are you due another visit to your ortho.

Click to expand...

No key whatsoever. So far only a few finger springs on the lower appliance have been activated to start rotating my lower front teeth, and that was also only done because I needed the second appointment for my upper brace. My first proper adjustment will be at my next appointment in 5 weeks. At that time I'll hopefully be introduced to all the active parts of my appliances, including the expansion screws. When asking about how my teeth will be moved the ortho referred to that appointment. Until then I should just get used to the braces.

Embracer said:

I had IPR as part of my orthodontic treatment. I think my ortho was looking to find about 3mm of extra space. [...] It is not at all painful, but perhaps a little disconcerting the first time. My ortho did it all by hand rather than using any powered equipment and i was a lot happier with that approach.

Click to expand...

3mm sounds quite a lot! For me I suspect it'll only be around 1-1.5 mm of space that'll be needed (though my ortho hasn't mentioned any specific number). I still hope that it's not needed and instead can be achieved with a little bit of expansion / tipping. At least your positive experience takes away a bit of my fear for that part of the treatment.

Embracer said:

How is your speech progressing? I expect you will reach a stage where your speech improves to the extent that you will be able to have a go at wearing your braces for work meetings too. [...] I presume you are mostly working remotely because of covid? Has the remoteness from other people caused by covid made it easier for you to proceed with your treatment?

Click to expand...

Talking is improving little by little. I've managed most sounds somewhat well, and I'm starting to find ways to make my alveolar and postalveolar fricatives sound not as bad, but also still not good. Probably around the time I'll lose the braces again, I'll finally have mastered talking Currently I don't expect pronunciation to improve enough for me to wear the braces during work meetings. Maybe in one-on-one meetings with one of my coworkers with which I have probably around 50% of my meeting time at work. However, due to SARS-CoV-2 and home-office I usually have no more than 2-3 hours of meetings per day anyway. Staying home most of the time definitely helps with wear-time a lot!
I'm not sure if covid was a major deciding factor for me to get braces now. Al least I haven't consciously used it for any decision, but it probably had a subliminal effect.

Embracer said:

For treatment with other types of removable braces like invisalign and inman aligners, orthodontists seem to require 22 hours plus per day. I can't imagine it can be very good for your teeth to have persistent periods of tooth movement whilst wearing your braces followed by persistent relapse when you are not wearing them.

Click to expand...

My ortho recommends 12-16 hours each day for adults. Even for children she recommends only 14-16 hours with removable braces. I guess she's able to achieve all the movement in that time-frame. Treatment will maybe take longer than when wearing them full-time. Currently I'm easily able to get 16-20 hours per day, which should be more than enough. I'll see how it turns out in the appointment after the next appointment, when we'll see the first results of spring activations. I can start adapting from there if movements are too slow or unstable.
Once home office is over, I don't know if I'll wear the braces during working hours, so that may reduce my wear time down to 12-14 hours. I'm allowed 2-3 days of home office per week (even before SARS-CoV-2 hit), so I can make up time during those days. But I'll tackle that once we get there (which may still take some time as for my company there's no rush to get us back on-site).

Presumably if your ortho has not discussed expansion with you, they will not have given you a key to turn the expansion screws?

I had IPR as part of my orthodontic treatment. I think my ortho was looking to find about 3mm of extra space. It seemed to do the trick with the help of a short powerchain. It is not at all painful, but perhaps a little disconcerting the first time. My ortho did it all by hand rather than using any powered equipment and i was a lot happier with that approach.

Have you had any part of your upper brace activated yet? Or are you due another visit to your ortho.

How is your speech progressing? I  expect you will reach a stage where your speech improves to the extent that you will be able to have a go at wearing your braces for work meetings too. I think it would be desirable to aim for that. For treatment with other types of removable braces like invisalign and inman aligners, orthodontists seem to require 22 hours plus per day. I can't imagine it can be very good for your teeth to have persistent periods of tooth movement whilst wearing your braces followed by persistent relapse when you are not wearing them.

I guess it is different when treatment is completed and you gradually move  from 24/7 retainer wear to just overnight or even just a couple of nights per week.

I presume you are mostly working remotely because of covid? Has the remoteness from other people caused by covid made it easier for you to proceed with your treatment?

All the best

Am enjoying reading all the answers.
I understand exactly what you mean about the nervousness / blood pressure!
When I eventually went ahead and made my appointment to go and get my (completely unnecessary) retainers and I went for the impressions, I think I was almost passing out with the anticipation. Then I had to go away and wait a week or more for the call to go back for fitting. That was the longest week of my life!
The feeling when the technician put them in was unbelievable. He asked me how they felt. I could hardly answer.

besinger said:

Can you share some shots?

Click to expand...

foobar said:

No, sorry.

Click to expand...

retained said:

I wonder if the top one will fit up to your palate more as it starts to move things around.?

Click to expand...

I don't think so. I always create a slight vacuum in my mouth, which resulted in my bruxism night guard leaving indentations in my gums, which I used as reason asking them to have the plate cover my full palate. Instead, they designed the plate to not touch the gums to prevent me sucking that negative pressure. Guess that's partially my own fault in the end, trying to use somewhat bogus reasons trying to make the appliances more extreme.

retained said:

I took the plunge and had another top one made to cover almost my entire palate. I have to say that I do prefer that feeling.

Click to expand...

Now you're just trying to make me envious! I guess I still have a chance for them to create a new top plate, if I have some sensible reasons on why I don't like the current top plate. The ortho said that I should try getting used to the current plate for now and see if it works for me, and if not we'll see what we can do. Any ideas / suggestions for arguments? Another idea would be to ask for the full-palate plate for my retainers, so I get to enjoy both types in the end.

Embracer said:

labial bow -  which I assume is designed that way to give flexibility for opposing forces to the springs behind your front teeth.

Click to expand...

The two straight springs between the finger springs of my outer incisors and canines are to move the canines back. I think the labial bow is formed that way to control the movement of the canines better as the two loops are (or will be when adjusted) touching my canines. For counteracting the opposing forces of the finger springs a normal labial bow would probably be just fine.

Embracer said:

Do the springs at the back of your upper appliance actually touch your wisdom teeth or are they designed for attaching elastics?

Click to expand...

I think they are intended to touch the molars and move them inwards once activated. Currently one sits in the middle of the wisdom tooth while the other is sitting close to the gum line (which will most likely be fixed when they are activated). For elastics the wires are probably too long and at a weird angle where elastics would create too much torque.

Embracer said:

Are your expansion screws being activated yet? What does your ortho say about the viability of expansion in adults?

Click to expand...

The expansion screws aren't activated yet. I don't know if the plan is to activate them at some point at all. The ortho hasn't mentioned anything about expansion or the screws so far. They could be there for a reason (which I'd definitely enjoy ), but they could also just be there because they are incorporated into every appliance they build? I don't know. But their mere existence would suggest that they'll be activated in due time, which I really hope for. In the top jaw I have enough space for all my teeth and the planned movements. Only in my lower jaw my incisors are a little crowded. Maybe they'll try to tip my teeth slightly to make room, but then again the ortho plans IPR for the lower incisors.

Embracer said:

What is the purpose of the bite plane on your lower appliance?

Click to expand...

I grind and grit my teeth a lot, resulting in strong abrasions. The bite plane is used similarly to a bruxism guard.

Embracer said:

It does seem odd that the lower appliance does not have a labial bow. Perhaps your ortho is just opening up space with this one and will follow it with a second lower appliance to actually straighten your lower teeth. Rotation must be a challenge with a removable appliance.

Click to expand...

I don't think that a second appliance is planned. At least from the treatment plan there is one appliance per jaw during treatment, and one set each of bonded and removable retainers. Rotations and other movements are done with all of the finger springs, of which there are plenty! How the fine-tuned alignment will be done I'm wondering myself. I'd have expected a labial bow as well.

Embracer said:

Are you managing much wear time with both appliances?

Click to expand...

I've only gotten the top plate yesterday, so I can't really comment on that yet. Considering that all of my friends know about my braces by now, and can understand me (I sound different, but perfectly intelligible), I only take them out during business meetings and when eating. So far, with just the lower plate, I've managed to have them in 16-20 hours each day, which I expect (read: hope) to make with both appliances as well.

Embracer said:

Sorry to ask so many questions but your treatment is really interesting.

Click to expand...

Ask away! I'm having a blast answering all the questions! Can't really get a conversation about braces started with my friends, as they just don't care, so this forum is the next best thing (Also, it helps getting me to 30 posts )

Embracer said:

Kudos to you for pressing for your choice of removable braces when it would have been easier to go with fixed braces.

Click to expand...

Fixed braces were never an option for me personally. I wouldn't have my teeth fixed if I hadn't found an ortho willing to treat me with removable plates. Even though it may not seem like it given the crazy appliances, I only have very slight imperfections, nothing that would require treatment if I didn't want it.

Retainer101 said:

How are you getting on with them?

Click to expand...

So far pretty good. They feel as nice as I hoped for. Some teeth started to move, which hurt like hell, just as expected. The only two problems are the expansion screw with its gap between the two halfs of the top plate, which irritate my tongue quite a lot, and the two springs between the top right molars, which are angled in a way that they pinch my tongue whenever I move it over them. So all in all my tongue isn't too happy right now, but I somehow anticipated these kinds of problems. Hopefully my tongue gets used to that so I won't wake up with my tongue hurting in the future.

Retainer101 said:

How long do you have to wear them for?

Click to expand...

I need to wear them a minimum of 12 hours a day, but should try to keep them in for 14-16 hours. The longer I wear them, the sooner I'll be done (though I'm not sure if that's a good thing ). So far I make 16-20 hours each day, let's see if it stays that way.

Retainer101 said:

I was so nervous going to get my retainers I can’t imagine how you felt getting those

Click to expand...

Before getting the bottom plate (and expecting to get the top one), I was extremely nervous. I can't remember ever having been that nervous before in my whole life, not even before defending my thesis. My blood pressure and pulse were completely through the roof, even higher than when I'm doing sports. Adrenaline was pumping like hell. As it turns out, theorizing about an event for over a decade and playing it through in my head a million times didn't help me in the slightest for this one.
When getting the top appliance a week later, for some reason I was much more relaxed. Still pretty nervous, but not nearly as much as before the previous appointment.

How are you getting on with them? How long do you have to wear them for? I was so nervous going to get my retainers I can’t imagine how you felt getting those

Very nice!

Gosh that is a really complex appliance. I think I can count 14 metal components in addition to the expansion screw and complicated labial bow -  which I assume is designed that way to give flexibility for opposing forces to the springs behind your front teeth.

Do the springs at the back of your upper appliance actually touch your wisdom teeth or are they designed for attaching elastics?

Are your expansion screws being activated yet? What does your ortho say about the viability of expansion in adults?

What is the purpose of the bite plane on your lower appliance? It does seem odd that the lower appliance does not have a labial bow. Perhaps your ortho is just opening up space with this one and will follow it with a second lower appliance to actually straighten your lower teeth. Rotation must be a challenge with a removable appliance.

Are you managing much wear time with both appliances?

Sorry to ask so many questions but your treatment is really interesting. Kudos to you for pressing for your choice of removable braces when it would have been easier to go with fixed braces.

Good luck!

Sounds like a challenge and really great.
I wonder if the top one will fit up to your palate more as it starts to move things around.?

It was always my ultimate dream to have retainers and I could believe the feeling when I finally got them. After a time I took the plunge and had another top one made to cover almost my entire palate.
I have to say that I do prefer that feeling.

that all sounds very interesting, thank you for sharing your experiences! Would be great to see how the applainces look in your mouth! Can you share some shots? Cheers from Berlin, Jan

(The images for the lower appliance are available again.)

With one week delay, I got my top appliance today!

Images:
http://dereferer.org/?https://cdn.d...s/530075173014077451/819671435995512883/1.jpg
http://dereferer.org/?https://cdn.d...s/530075173014077451/819671461886296094/2.jpg
http://dereferer.org/?https://cdn.d...s/530075173014077451/819671454198923284/3.jpg
http://dereferer.org/?https://cdn.d...s/530075173014077451/819671456492552222/4.jpg

Isn't it a beauty with all of those springs?

The brace doesn't cover as much of the palate as I expected. They said that my brace already goes back further than they usually make them. They had bad experiences with plates that fill large parts of the palate in the past, so they went with this design for me.
There is quite some wax residue on the finger springs in the front, which you can also see in some places in the images. I've tried to remove it with a toothbrush without much success. I guess it'll flake off over time and usage.

Talking just became really hard! It's nothing compared to just the lower brace. This upper plate makes talking extra complicated, because it doesn't sit flush against the palate. Instead, there is a small gap of a millimeter or so between the brace and my palate where air can flow through and saliva build up. The former means that any fricative is pretty much impossible now, while the latter results in me spitting all over the place while talking… Let's see how this improves over the next few weeks.

The ortho started activating some springs on the lower appliance. I can really feel the pressure immediately.

All in all I must say that the appliances are very very close to my (real, non-fictional) dream treatment! I'm super happy that I finally took the plunge!

I'm getting metal next week.  ;D

(I know that my images of the lower brace have been removed. I don't know why they were flagged as virus as virustotal finds nothing wrong with them. I've written to Marty and am waiting for a response on how I can restore the links / reupload the images.)

Quick update after close to a week of wearing the bottom brace, and one day before getting the upper one. I've told most of my friends that I have braces by now, and they really don't care in the slightest. It's just an "ok" and that's it. No more mention about it. Talking hasn't improved much. I can talk faster again, but "s" sounds are still impacted. Probably even more so tomorrow when I get the top plate. Some friends say that they hear quite a difference when I'm talking, others didn't notice anything (at least in voicechat). With having my braces in around friends I've been able to consistently wear them 16-20 hours each day, which is way more than I expected to be able to do. Maybe it's just the honeymoon period

I've already noticed that my teeth don't meet perfectly anymore, even though nothing has been activated yet. I guess that's due to biting into the bite-plane all the time when wearing the brace. That'll be something I'll (need to) get used to during the next year. I also have slight headaches every now and again, probably because my jaws are further apart than I'm used to.

I'm really intrigued by the appointment tomorrow, not only because I'll finally get to embrace (pun intended) the upper plate, but also because I'm interested in when / how the braces will be activated and whether buttons will still be part of my treatment or not (which didn't get mentioned last week).

Retainer101 said:

I just noticed my top Centre and bottom Centre are not meeting in the middle

Click to expand...

That sounds like your midline is shifted. All 3 orthos I've been to said that correcting the midline can only be done with fixed brackets unforunately. My slightly off-center midline is my only concern that won't be corrected during this treatment as I went with removable braces.

That is some appliance! When I finished my treatment I thought I had the perfect smile but 6 months into retainers I’ve looked closer and while they are straight they aren’t as aligned as I would like. Having a Hawley retainer I guess I have looked closer at my teeth and I just noticed my top Centre and bottom Centre are not meeting in the middle and the left side is more flush than the right side. I’m not sure I share your confidence to try sorting it out, even with working from home. I deff couldn’t do fixed braces again, maybe Invisalign might work but I’d be scared they gave me a functional appliance and I can’t say I’d have your confidence. Fair play to you for having the balls to go for the treatment.