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Author Topic: How to get ortho to give you molar bands?  (Read 838 times)

Offline tommorowdies

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How to get ortho to give you molar bands?
« on: 15. September 2022, 18:45:05 PM »
Hey there!

I getting braces for the first time at 37. So excited.

I have had the initial consultation. I need a posterior crossbite corrected on one side. They said it would be braces on at the next appointment, but they didn't give me any spacers so I assume they won't use molar bands. I did want an expander put in but they said they can fix it with just braces. Although I don't want anything retracted or pulled in, and I know that happens with crossbite elastics a little bit.

The main reason I want molar bands (or ideally an expander) is just because I love them.

Do you think there's any way of encouraging my ortho to give me molar bands without confusing her or sounding crazy?

Or maybe I could say I absolutely don't want any teeth retracted inwards, and just by the laws of physics they'll have to give me an expander?

Thanks everyone!

Offline tommorowdies

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Re: How to get ortho to give you molar bands?
« Reply #1 on: 16. September 2022, 06:33:22 AM »
Update: I know what I'm going to do. I'm going to go to another orthodontist, and keep going to different ones until someone is willing to put an RPE and fixed metal braces on me. I don't want any retraction. I've seen some good evidence that it will work on adults. So I'm willing to try it on myself.

I'm also going to say I need expansion to create room for my tongue as my tongue hurts all the time which is true.

Other benefits include increased nasal volume.. Better sleep and therefore less anxiety and better athletic performance! These are big and important and life changing. I don't know why people where are often worried about the ortho "finding out". Most of us don't have developed jaws anyway. Any kind of crossbite and you're not at your genetic potential. Almost all of us could benefit from some kind of expansion and it can be done without surgery. There are studies. I'm gonna get an RPE. You can tell your ortho you know about this and how it's related to health and this is the procedure you want for you health. If an ortho won't do it, move on..someone will take your money for it. You just need to hold correct tongue posture to retain it.

Great idea lol thanks to the weed cookies

Offline Person

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Re: How to get ortho to give you molar bands?
« Reply #2 on: 17. September 2022, 03:17:46 AM »
I think it’s awesome that you’re excited about getting braces!

As for your plan, getting consults from multiple orthodontists is a great idea. However, you might not find any who will give you an expander. Stiff, thick archwires are able to do a little bit of widening, and that might be more than enough for your crossbite. And I don’t know why elastics for a crossbite would cause “retraction”.

For molar bands, it does seem like a lot of orthos don’t use them unless you’re getting some sort of appliance. I will be getting some on the bottom for a lower lingual holding arch when I get a Carriere appliance, but I won’t have them when I get full braces after that. They will use them, however, if the bracket on the molar keeps falling off, or if there’s a filling or crown or something that causes an issue with it staying attached.

I don’t want to come across as a downer, but want you to be realistic instead of getting your hopes up too high. I would get consults from a several orthos, and choose one based on how comfortable you feel at that office and how much the treatment makes sense (without your interest in braces coloring this too much).

If there’s some appliance you really want to see what it feels like to wear after that, buy some fakes after your treatment is done.

Offline tommorowdies

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Re: How to get ortho to give you molar bands?
« Reply #3 on: 18. September 2022, 01:51:11 AM »
But don't you feel everyone could benefit from some expansion? There's no way my maxilla is at genetic potential. I have tongue scalloping, buccal corridor, and my tongue doesn't fit in my mouth. I'm also in Mexico where you can usually pay someone to do your request lol

Offline Person

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Re: How to get ortho to give you molar bands?
« Reply #4 on: 19. September 2022, 22:18:24 PM »
Everyone? No; I think you want it to line up well with the mandible, and for a lot of people that will already be the case. And for adults, unless you have surgery to reopen the suture, an expander isn’t going to do anything to improve nasal airflow or anything like that. It‘ll tip the teeth out, or push them out further in the bone, maybe.

If you can find someone who will do it if you pay them, more power to you. But it might not be the best option for you. I think if you talk to enough orthodontists, you’ll get an accurate picture of the state of your teeth/jaws and what would be best to do. Maybe some do recommend an expander. Maybe some recommend jaw surgery. Maybe some recommend extractions; you can ask those orthos what other options there are that would avoid extractions.

Offline tommorowdies

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Re: How to get ortho to give you molar bands?
« Reply #5 on: 20. September 2022, 08:06:33 AM »
I have reason to believe adult expansion is possible, and I've seen some research.

My pallet has already expanded a lot with just my tongue. The extra mechanical force will accelerate it. Many orthos don't want people to know this is possible because it's less money for them if we find out why so many people have crooked teeth: Lack of correct tongue posture.

If your teeth are at all crooked or you have a crossbite, you are not at your genetic potential in the maxilla. Expansion without surgery will work but you have to have good tongue strength and posture to support it.

Offline Embracer

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Re: How to get ortho to give you molar bands?
« Reply #6 on: 20. September 2022, 12:33:10 PM »
Sorry, tomorrowdies, but it looks like you have been taken in by the conspiracy theories expounded by some of the more cranky dental providers on the net!

What Person said above is a decent summary of the actual science.

By all means get opinions from as many properly qualified orthodontists as you want- then trust their expertise.

Good luck with your treatment. I hope you enjoy it and get good results.

Offline Brace_Face

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Re: How to get ortho to give you molar bands?
« Reply #7 on: 20. September 2022, 21:40:45 PM »
Here in Germany you will get molar bands for every braces treatment. I actually never saw here someone who had braces and didn’t have molar bands. I have them too + headgear tubes on the upper jaw.

Offline nyar

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Re: How to get ortho to give you molar bands?
« Reply #8 on: 21. September 2022, 01:18:50 AM »
I agree with you that a wider mouth usually means better breathing, better athletic performance, and it's more aesthetically pleasing... just be careful not to exaggerate! I loved my RPE, I had it for 7 months and it's what made me realize I had a braces kink. I hope you get one as well :)

Offline tommorowdies

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Re: How to get ortho to give you molar bands?
« Reply #9 on: 21. September 2022, 07:20:08 AM »
Hey! What do you mean by being careful not to over-exaggerate?

Offline tommorowdies

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Re: How to get ortho to give you molar bands?
« Reply #10 on: 21. September 2022, 07:23:51 AM »
Sorry, tomorrowdies, but it looks like you have been taken in by the conspiracy theories expounded by some of the more cranky dental providers on the net!

What Person said above is a decent summary of the actual science.

By all means get opinions from as many properly qualified orthodontists as you want- then trust their expertise.

Good luck with your treatment. I hope you enjoy it and get good results.

Haha I didn't believe it at first, but I have pictures to prove it. Huge changes. Two orthodontists responses have been "Wow!" and complete fascination.

You guys are all in orthodontic dogma. Expansion will work in adults, has been documented, is possible, and I can clearly see that it's happened in me. It depends on tongue posture. I know this to be true. Muscle will always win in a battle with bone.

I saw an ortho who had already done a consultation, about expansion. The manager said they will re-evaluate. She did the re-evaluation for like 3 mins, and just said "Yes, you need braces, expander, and wisdom teeth extracted". As soon as that happened I was like "Yup, I'm leaving"

I'm in contact with another ortho who understands

Offline Sparky

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Re: How to get ortho to give you molar bands?
« Reply #11 on: 21. September 2022, 20:42:08 PM »
Expansion in adults: from what I read, it's now accepted that younger adults still have *some* ability for palatial expansion without having to "crack the join"... If you're older, then it's going to be less possible.

Of course, if expansion slightly tips the molars from being tipped in to being straight, your tongue will 'think' there's more space... well, I guess there IS more space...

I note that your ortho says "expander", which is NOT necessarily RAPID Palatial Expansion. (Apparently, RPE is often 0.5 to 1 mm/day)

Wikipedia says "Although the use of an expander is most common in children and adolescents 8-18 years of age, it can also be used in adults, although expansion is slightly more uncomfortable and takes longer. A patient who would rather not wait several months for the end result by a palatal expander may be able to opt for a surgical separation of the maxilla". 

Offline tommorowdies

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Re: How to get ortho to give you molar bands?
« Reply #12 on: 22. September 2022, 07:29:35 AM »
I agree with all of this, but also I believe tongue posture and swallowing habits (both of which I have drastically changed) play a huge factor. Let's not forget most orthodontists are looking at a range of cases, from people with more developed jaws to people who can't even get their tongue on the roof of their mouth because their jaw is so underdeveloped.

I went through a lot of pain and discomfort correcting my tongue posture. Yes, with a hyrax expander you'll have to go slow, but I believe it's possible to get intermolar width closer to genetic potential with a hyrax, I just suspect that it must be supported with good to tongue posture.

I don't really want to post pic, but I do have pics showing a huge difference in posture change. But if I get braces and a hyrax, I will
 post photos showing its possible.