BracesForum.net
English => General => Topic started by: DemBones on 09. July 2010, 16:44:50 PM
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I have seen a few posts mentioning locked headgear. Has anyone actually managed this? As in really managed this – IE a headgear that can be locked on, and only be removed with a key? Or is this just another fantasy? "wired in" does not count, I'm afraid...
And if so, how?
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I am almost sure that this is just a fantasy (or a fake). I cant believe that a "technology" like this would be accepted by patients. You can about it here and there in the internet - but I never found evidence.
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Well, from the point of view of technology - there are those facebows that have 'safety locks'. It probably wouldn't be difficult to block these locks in the 'closed' position, e.g. with a wire. >:D Somehow, though, I too can't see anyone actually doing this... ;) ;D
SC
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I think I have found a way to do this. Note, I said “Think”. I’m going to give it a tryout, and if it works, will post pictures here.
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I think you gave the impression that you were asking if it could be done from a clinical perspective... which would not fly beyond fantasy!
From a technical perspective, it would be pretty easy, especially with an older style strap headgear. Just weld the outer tips of the facebow to make closed loops instead of open ends. Then use two small hasp style locks and weld a d-ring to each one, on the end opposite the hasp. The strap threads through the rings and would be tensioned as normal. Be sure to fix the clasp so it can't be loosened by your non-compliant patient! >:D
The facebow would be fitted into the tubes and the strap with the locks attach to the ends, effectively locking the strap in place with two highly visible locks!
Using a "safety lock" style of facebow as well would be a very good idea, since it would be a bad situation if the inner bow ends came out of the tubes, (and no way to loosen or remove the strap). Optionally, put a couple of turns of wire to keep them closed, (as previously suggested), and you have perfect headgear compliance!
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Good news/bad news situation. I’ve managed it, but….
Oaky, firstly, I’ve attached two straps to the ends of my facebow. Clear plastic straps with a few reinforced eyelets. Then I bent the headgear hooks shut (a Leatherman tool is such a handy thing to have!)so that straps cannot be unhooked from the ends of the facebow.
So now you have a facebow with two straps hanging from the end. Attach headgear to facebow as per normal (elastics on my high-pull slips through the hooks even when bent closed to keep the straps locked in place) Bring the loose ends of the straps together behind the neck, and padlock together through the t-piece at the neck of the headgear – ta-dah! Headgear locked in!
Or is it… I’ve discovered no matter how tightly I padlock my facebow in, I can always slip it out of the buccal tubes. And I can slip it out of my mouth. Thus it’s technically “removable”. (Also, if it’s too tight around the head to try and make it “un-removable” it gets really uncomfortable, and then I just want out and all the fun is out of the game – its better for me to have a bit of slack – I want to feel the headgear, not the locks.). However, because the straps are still locked round my neck, and connected to the headgear itself, it still sits round my neck like a collar, and there is this big mass of webbing hanging down my neck. In case no one noticed, headgear inner-bows are sharp, and when tied round the neck it pokes nastily at the throat… so ‘tis easier to just wear the darn thing in the mouth as it was meant to, than it is to remove and wear it round the neck. Which can be a blessing really – the facebow can then be removed for cleaning and eating, but provides enough discomfort to put it back where it belongs when lunchtime is up!
I’ll see if I can take some pics sometime next week to show. I’d call this myth “confirmed”.
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This isn’t a ‘locking’ headgear like with requiring a key to open, but a friend of mine had a lock-on hg used on his son during his treatment. The lad was stubborn better put bull-headed about wearing it as required, slipping it off as soon as a parent turned his back! It didn’t take very long for dad and the ortho to be at wits end, the ortho declaring if he didn’t get more cooperation he’d stop treatment, dad worried about the boy’s health in 20 years, no less the $ 3000.00 plus investment he was watching going down the drain. The ortho suggested the locking hg option.
It was an almost standard highpull hg with a modified face bow, the face bow had safety locks that hooked behind the molar bands, and on the outer bow right at the ends the hooks for connecting the traction straps, the ortho welded small u shaped clasps on the bow. The ortho supplied dad with baggies of small nylon Cable Ties, the same thing used for bundling multilple electrical wires together. A side note, once tightened the only way to remove these ties is to cut them, they cannot be reused.
Each time Junior put his headgear in mom or dad would slip a Cable Ties though the clasps on each side of the face bow and tighten it, sealing the hook the tractions straps were connected to. Once that was done the only way to remove the device was to cut the ties. The boy was informed that, short of the worst of emergencies imaginable, any damage to either of the cable ties would cost him a TOTAL loss of freedom, and a fairly large chunk of his ass.
It worked quiet well, Junior only tested them once (“a cable tie fell off…”) and is getting through the hg phase of his treatment a little sooner than the ortho predicted so far.
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I am sure technically this can be done, but I don't imagien any orthodontist woudl do it for safety reasons - if someoen had an accident they wouldn't want the legal case!
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I know a guy whose mother would use tape to 'lock' his facebow on. She would put it where the strap met the metal. If he took it off, she knew. More of a mental lock than anything else. But he said it worked, he had to wear it much more than he ever wanted to.
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I've heard if taped ub hg, but never seen it. It seems like would work, esp if the kid knows better than to disobey his parents.
Actually UK, it was the ortho's idea (the cable tie locking hg). I dont see any safety issue, as I stated the facebow had the safety latches at the molars so the facebow couldn't come dislodged. Like taping the hg on the cable ties could be cut in an emergency, but the parents would know if they had.
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I'm trying out the "locking headgear" today. It promises to be quite an interesting experience. Got my high-pull in, and a lovely lady friend came along this AM before she went to work, and padlocked it - can't take it off now.
The keys to the padlock is in turn locked with a combination lock in a locker, so in order to remove the headgear, I need the lock combination. This will only be given to me once a certain time period (at this stage unknown to me) and/or work-related tasks and duties have been completed. IE: today I'm productive in my work or else I'm gonna sit for a while with this thing in my mouth - and i'm certainly not going to the pub tonight!
Tried to take pics - but its hard to take a photo behind your head!
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I wonder if an orthodontist would attach a bow that only the orthodontist could remove if a patient requested it.
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Orthos can wire in facebows, I think this practice was more 'popular' a few years ago, mostly for not complying with wear requirements and/or at parents' request. This happened to two of my sons friends in the 90's (at different times) one of them was wired in through a summer vacation, the other for about 4 months during the school year. I will say it did wonders for the 'bracefaced' kids in their group, both my boys and others quickly began wearing headgear and other appliances much more, I'm sure not wanting the same fate.
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My headgear is fixed. My girlfriend is a dentist and she fixed my facebow so I can not withdraw. It is a soldier.
It still exists. I'm proof of that.
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My headgear is fixed. My girlfriend is a dentist and she fixed my facebow so I can not withdraw. It is a soldier.
It still exists. I'm proof of that.
How about some evidence?
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I would believe the idea of "locking" the facebow on with tape or a removable tie, like some have suggested.
But, no ortho in their right mind would truly "wire" it in. It just leaves the wearer open to injury in an emergency. Not to mention the psychological damage.
No matter how many stories I read, or posts like this...no matter how much I think it's a neat idea (and I do want to believe), it just isn't real...
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No matter how many stories I read, or posts like this...no matter how much I think it's a neat idea (and I do want to believe), it just isn't real...
When I was a kid, about, 15, 16, my ortho threatened to wire it in. He never did. I made me understand that he *could* if he wanted to. Now I'm not 100% sure that ever happens or not, but I was sure as hell read the riot act. I think that may have been the start of my idea of a locking headgear - no one in their right minds would "wire it in", not on a permanent, 24/7 basis unless there is some truly exceptional circumstance. But locking it up for 12 hours a day... now that can be done.
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Actually it did happen. I just inherited the "Headgear Hell" blog so you can go there and read the long version if you want, but we lived an hour north of Seattle, my brother was an orthodontic patient at the University of Washington Dental School. He wore his for 9 months "tied in". There is an article in the American Journal of Orthodontics from 1971 by Armstrong "Controlling the magniyude, direction and duration of extraoral force."
The longtime editor of the "journal of clinical orthodontics" wrote an editorial around the same time urging all orthodontist to agree to require full time wear for all headgear patients. The original author of "Headgear Hell" had an ortho that gave a speech in front of an Orthodontic Association meeting entitled "24 hour headgear: I like it.". So I think his story is true.
My orthodontist who was not part of the UW program absolutely would have "tied" mine in if my mother had her way. As it was I was told to either wear it all the time or it would be tied in. Which, of course was almost the same as having it wired on, the difference beine able to eat and drink and brush easier.
I will turn 60 in two months. The sixties were a long time ago and so much has changed, but it did happen.
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The Locking Facebow - it truly exists...
//deleted rule 1.04
What a nice to have ;-)
Can the shop deliver this?
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The Locking Facebow - it truly exists...
What a nice to have ;-)
Can the shop deliver this?
"Easily locked or removed from buccal tubes"
It's just a safty mechanism...
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I was about to say that looked very easy to remove.
It's a neat idea to keep the facebow from dislodging, but I would be worried if something hit the facebow hard. Would it damage/pull on the tooth?
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https://dereferer.me/?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWsHsnm3xpw
this video shows the above safety mechanism at about t=46s
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Now you see, if that safety mechanism kinda "clicked" in place with a ratchet, and needed a "key" to release the ratchet, like a system on a handcuff for instance, that would be perfect! *hmmmm.....*
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Now you see, if that safety mechanism kinda "clicked" in place with a ratchet, and needed a "key" to release the ratchet, like a system on a handcuff for instance, that would be perfect! *hmmmm.....*
Nightmare or dream come true depending on the view... ;)
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Nightmare or dream come true depending on the view... ;)
Both...simultaneously ^-^
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will only work on fixed braces though, not on removables like my retainer.
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will only work on fixed braces though, not on removables like my retainer.
I like fixed braces better anyway, for just that reason - you can't remove them!
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Amazing
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What do you require evidence of?
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I don't know much about the subject, but it seems difficult, as I don't think it is advised to excercise with it, for example
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I saw a thread on reddit (r/all) recently posted by someone who wore a facemask when she was younger. In the comment she talked about how the first few months she had wires instead of elastics to hold the facemask on (and thus couldn't remove it for those months...)
This is the first I've heard of this (outside some fetishy type sites with obvious fake comments). I still have trouble believing an ortho would have made it impossible to remove, even for a few months...
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Some seem to be talking about a safety facebow and others the wired in facebow.
For any non-believers of the wired in part look up an article by Dr Armstrong in 1971 in the American Journal of Orthodontics. He taught at the U of Washington and thought full time heavy pressure at the right age would do the job in a matter of months. If the parents wanted their kids to be treated there (saving money), and the case required it, they had to agree to have the patient wear it full time 'tied in'. Patients were pre-adolescent, once permanent dentition was in place it no longer made sense to apply pressure like that. The longest time mentioned in the article was 6-9 months with most around 4 months.
Not surprisingly, not all kids seemed to like the idea but had to 'cooperate' because the facebow would not come out. Pictures showed mostly combination or high pull headgear. As my orthodontist pointed out at the time to my mother and I, all I had to do was just not take it off. I was 13 and she made sure I wore it unless there was a reason to take it off. It was a simple blue elastic cloth neck strap and pad, with the facebow and way back in 1971-73 it made my life miserable.
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https://dereferer.me/?https://dereferer.me/?http://anonym.to/?https://dereferer.me/?https://dereferer.me/?http://www.jco-online.com/archive/article-view.aspx?year=1971&month=06&articlenum=301
My roommate in college actually went to the orthodontist who wrote this. The grand plan to get all orthodontist to have all their headgear patients wear it all the time never happened. I met several other kids at the time who wore theirs a lot, like me out in public, but none voluntarily and only one other person who wore hers to school. We heard all of the insults. Trust us old timers, back then all of the dreaded bands, headgear and elastics made you the nerd.
My control freak mother and equally demanding orthodontist made wiring it on unnecessary.
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The only reason I did not have a tied-in headgear in the late 80's / early 90's, was because my control freak mum was not there when the orthodontist threatened to do it to me. if mummy dearest heard that threat, it would have happened. As kinky as I am, i'm glad I missed that one.
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Wow, I never thought that really existed... Awesome
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Maybe we have proof, last listing in fullbands thread has a picture of female with just face bow and no headstrap.
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Hg
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maybe it is a activator with a fix mounted facebow and she have to wear the appliance and didn't want to get the strap wet?!??
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During quarantine I had my facebow permanently welded in for about 4 months from mid March until mid July